Magic in Narnia vs. Charmed

[Inariae]

[WolfVanZandt]

It wasn't long enough. I was enjoying it.

[nomad]

'brillig' makes me think of washing dishes. It sounds like 'brillo pad'.

[Inariae]

[WolfVanZandt]

Actually, there was no sarcasm.

[Inariae]

In that case, thank you.

But what did you think? I didn't want to end the discussion. Not unless we agreed on something or realized we just couldn't do so. You have made points I am not sure I addressed well enough, if at all.

[WolfVanZandt]

[Dawn]

[WolfVanZandt]

[Messenger_of_Eden]

[Inariae]

How do you mean 'semantical', Wolf? It is widely misused, and I don't really know whether I should take it as colloquial or technical (i.e. - concerning the meaning of words). If you do mean it technically, then I most emphatically agree that the discussion was such as to be called 'semantical.'

But, often, it seems that people intend for it to mean either using words in an equivocal way, or structuring sentences in such a way that an empty or nonsensical point is made to appear as though it were saying something very important. Both of these uses of language depend upon the meaning or apparent ambiguity of words, but they are not strictly semantic. In equivocation, the semantics are actually confused, and that's the problem. As for the other...well, perhaps that is a semantic confusion too. If someone says nonsense and it sounds important, then maybe those listening did not really understand what all the words used meant. Hmm...now I'm confused.

But, anyway, I don't really know if I agree with you or not, Wolf. Not without a clarification of terms. Have you ever read Plato's Protagoras? You somehow manage to shove me into the role of Prodicus quite regularly.

(There was a bit more for you Messenger_of_Eden )

Well, I think this particular tangent may be giving way to the original subject (which is probably a good thing...), so I'll try to switch over too.

You've confused me a bit, Dawn. What do you mean when you say that the "magic was introduced and subsequently adapted to Narnia"? Which piece of magic are you talking about, and how was it adapted?

As for the "road to Hell is paved with good intentions" thing...well, I thought it was about pride. I don't know that I would say the intentions are selfish and narrow-minded (maybe they are and the intender doesn't realize it - that's been me before), but I think they're misdirected.

Dorothy Sayers wrote something about it, and she says it much better than I could. I'll try to find the quote and post it.[/quote]

[Inariae]

Found it!

It's a bit long. But that isn't really new for me...

"the devilish strategy of pride is that it attacks us, not on our weak points, but on our strong. It is preeminently the sin of the noble mind - that corruptio optimi that works more evil in the world than all the deliberate vices. Because we do not recognize pride when we see it, we stand aghast to see the havoc wrought by the triumphs of human idealism. We meant so well, we thought we were succeeding - and look what has come of our efforts! There is a proverb that says that the way to hell is paved with good intentions. We usually take it as referring to intentions that have been weakly abandoned, but it has a deeper and much subtler meaning. That road is paved with good intentions strongly and obstinately pursued until they have become self-sufficing ends in themselves and deified.

Sin grows with doing good...
Servant of God has chance of greater sin
And sorrow, than the man who serves a king.
For those who serve the greater cause may make the cause serve them,
Still doing right."

Also,

"Human happiness is a by-product, thrown off in our service of God"

Both quotes are from Dorothy L. Sayers "The Other Six Deadly Sins." The poem that she quotes is from T. S. Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral.

Corruptio optimi is a Latin phrase meaning 'a corruption of what is best.' It is from a slightly longer phrase - corruptio optimi pessima - which means 'a corruption of what is best is worst.'

Emphasis on the proverb is my own.

I think Jack talked about this too (they knew each other, incidentally), but I can't remember where. If I remember the point though, it was that pursuing the will of God is a good far greater than curing social ills; but if that will is pursued, we'll find the social stuff taken care of on the way.

"Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added" and such.

[Inariae]

Sorry to post three times in a row, but I had to share my overwhelming joy...

My avatar and signature are back!

[Dawn]

Ok... I will attempt to explain what I meant when I said magic was introduced...

First off, is it magic when everyone/thing posseses it? We would consider it magic (because it's not normal to us) but to the inhabitants, it's simply the way things are. The real magic in Narnia is what was introduced ie: Jadis and even the children (and everyone/thing else) coming to Narnia. That's the Magic in the land... I hope I made myself a little more clear.

If we all could do "magical" things, would we call it magic? Or would we then just take it for granted as just the way things are?

By the way, thanx for the quote. Here we go with semantics. What means one thing to one means something else entirely to another. Good-intentions to me are generally selfish, a way to make that individual's life easier and perhaps give them a feeling of less guilt (over whatever they have to feel guilty about).

[WolfVanZandt]