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Thoughts on TLB (Spoilers)

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Thoughts on TLB (Spoilers)

Postby Peepiceek » November 3rd, 2007, 11:17 am

I just finished Last Battle for the second time. I think the book warrants some discussion. Here are some points I noticed. Forgive me as I have a tendancy to ramble.

I like Tirian. i think he is the most respectable of the Narnian kings. I think his "sorely prokoked" rashness was entirely forgivable given the circumstances and he learned his lesson very well. This is evidenced by his reaction to the dwarfs shooting the horses. I was totally with Jewel's idea at the time. The voice inside my head was screaming "Kill 'em ALL!!" "DIE FILTHY HEATHENS!" If I was there I probably would have gotten myself killed at this point, with two dozen arrows sticking out of my chest after I charged the dwarfs to lop all their little heads off. Tirian showed amazing dicipline. I wonder if the dwarfs spent eternity in the dark. Since they were technically in Heaven they couldn't die. It was perfectly OK for Tirian to still want to kill them and Eustace to wish Tash had eaten them because since they both were dead they could no longer want wrong things. (See the end of TSC).
Were Scrubb and Pole already dead the whole time they spent in Narnia? Or did Aslan snatch them out of the train before it happened. If the former then their conversation about what would happen if they died in battle would be moot. I wonder if they could die in battle?
I think Last Battle is the most provokative of the books. It certainly is frustrating to read how well the monkey's plan worked. For some reason I was also greatly affected by the bear's passing. I don't know why but I had to tell myself to get a grip :sad:
The part of the book I don't absolutely love if the very end, the Shaddowlands chapter. It is just a little too abstract for me. I, like the bear, would probably prefer to stay in the east part where thing's don't get too confusing. I also didn't like how Aslan ceased to look like a lion but it can't describe how he looked now. I can only assume he took his human form we know as Christ. (according to Lewis' letters to readers it is OK to prefer the lion form)
What do you suppose Aslan said to Puzzle that made his ears drop and then raise? It just popped into my head that he told him what happened to Shift.
Aslan says that Tash is his opposite. I'm going to have to differ with Lewis on this point and I may be wrong. I think opposite implies equal. The opposite of 7 is -7. The opposite of "Go" is actually not "Stop" but "Go in the opposite direction". I dont believe Tash or whatever his real world symbolism may suggest for one second is equal to Aslan or his counterpart Christ. Just as the Devil (AKA Satan, Lucifer) cannot be called the opposite of God. They are created and imperfect beings. To use mathematics as analogy: God is truely infinite. Satan is not. If anything about either of them could be quantified then any finite number, no matter how big, might as well be 0 when compared with infinity. Even Gogolplex which is a number larger than the sum every atom comprising all matter in the universe, when divided by infinity is so close to Zero that it might as well not exist. Perhaps Lewis did not take a mathematical approch to this analogy though and I forgive him. While were on the subject what do you think Tash represents in the real world? Being the 'god' of the Calormenes (he's no more a god than any other common monster), he may represent Allah. Having four arms he is somewhat like Siva. Perhaps he is a conglomeration of many real world pagan deities. And also I don't recall who actually "called" him to appear.

These are my thoughts though you may call me a silly little bleater who should go home and drink milk. I also think the lamb was Aslan egging on the situation.
night.
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Postby Solomons Song » November 4th, 2007, 2:51 pm

TLB has always been my least favorite of the Chronicles, simply because the spirituality in it is too flagrant. And of course, Lewis flirts too much with dualism (as you pointed out) and also with universalism (Emeth) in it. I still think it is a good book, just the least good among the Chronicles.

It makes me sad :cry: to think that Lewis might have been contemplating dualism when TLB was written. I know he calls it the best philosophy going outside Christianity in Mere Christianity, and usually when one holds a philosophy in such high esteem, one never truly abandons it during their lifetime.

The idea that Satan is equal to Christ, just on the opposite end of the spectrum, is asinine to me. Satan only has what power and freedom Christ ordains for him to have. Christianity believes that old serpent is on a leash (though sometimes even I think the leash is a little too long).
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Postby A#minor » November 4th, 2007, 11:00 pm

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Postby David Jack » November 5th, 2007, 5:28 am

i think people are misunderstanding lewis a bit here. he did say that dualism was the best philosophy other than christianity, but he also said that where other belief systems contradicted it, christianity was right and they were wrong. lewis must therefore have believed dualism to be closer to christianity than any other religion but he rejects the idea that satan is equal in power with god (and he states this clearly in mere christianity.)

also, while lewis does 'flirt' with universalism in TLB (not a bad thing in my opinion, but i won't go into that here) it isn't emeth's salvation which suggests this. aslan takes the good service that tirian has done in his mortal life as service to himself, but if judgement after death is final then plenty of people would still spend eternity in hell (most of the other calormene soldiers for instance.)

the hint at universalism is the second chance given to the dwarves, although even then i think that was before the judgement scene (i don't have the book to hand.) in any case, the great divorce suggests the possibility of universal salvation, even if not everyone will suffer themselves to be led out of darkness into the light of god's presence.

as for the book itself (TLB) i think it's up there with the best of them, although LWW is still the best IMHO.
"This is and has been the Father’s work from the beginning-to bring us into the home of His heart.” George MacDonald.
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Postby carol » November 5th, 2007, 10:19 am

The dwarfs [this is Lewis, not Tolkien] are a bit interesting, because Lewis never defines the boundary lines for death or heaven.

The place inside the stable seems to be the point of death - but it takes a very long time! I don't think that we could say the dwarfs are in heaven, and certainly the Calormenes who go in are not headed for Aslan's Country.

I don't believe he was leaning towards either dualism or universalism in LB. We are not meant to discover Christian eschatology from this book, merely to get a taste for it.
Why? Simply because it is NOT a theology book, but a children's story. It does not neatly fit into Biblical theology, and in places it seems to be ambiguous - or at least not to outline what Lewis thought on the issues.

For a man who has been very black and white about Christianity, put his whole career on the line because he was determined to win Britain back for Christ, there should be no doubt about his own beliefs - they just don't happen to be defined in LB.
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Postby Peepiceek » November 5th, 2007, 4:19 pm

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Postby Coyote Goodfellow » November 5th, 2007, 4:34 pm

Last edited by Coyote Goodfellow on November 5th, 2007, 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Coyote Goodfellow » November 5th, 2007, 5:35 pm

"I don't care if it is wrong," said one of the moles. "I'd do it again."
"Hush, hush" said the other animals.
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Postby Solomons Song » November 11th, 2007, 5:20 pm

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Postby nomad » November 12th, 2007, 1:58 pm

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Postby carol » November 16th, 2007, 9:40 am

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Postby Tharkun » December 14th, 2007, 5:01 pm

I must have something to work on...I cannot burn snow.

:roll:
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Postby Peepiceek » December 14th, 2007, 11:51 pm

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Postby Tharkun » December 15th, 2007, 2:25 am

I must have something to work on...I cannot burn snow.

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