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Pride in PC

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Pride in PC

Postby glumPuddle » November 29th, 2007, 4:29 am

One of most potentially disturbing things I have heard about the PC film is that there will be some "antagonism" between Caspian and the Pevensies. Adamson even said that Peter and Caspian have an "intense argument" as some point. One report also suggested that Caspian will start out more "cocky" than he is in the book.

The idea of Caspian and Peter shouting at each other just kills me. Caspian should have an incredible awe and reverence of Peter, because he's a legendary character staright out of his bedtime stories! The myth became real.

But, perhaps what they are trying to do is make pride one of the major themes in the movie. At the end of the book, Aslan asks Caspian if he feels sufficient to take up the kingship, Caspian answers no, and Aslan says that that means he is in fact sufficient. Caspian's humility is what makes him fit to be king.
Miraz, on the other hand, is the opposite. The Telmarines had the advantage. All Miraz had to do was continue fighting a little longer, and they would've won. But, in the end, his own pride took away the victory. He simply couldn't take Glozelle and Sopespian calling him a coward, so his own pride forced him to accept Peter's challenge to single combat. And he ended up dead, and his army defeated.

The hero humbled himself, and so was exalted.
The villain exalted himself, and so was humbled.

Perhaps what they are trying to do is extend that idea to the Pevensies, and make them a part of it.

That idea actually sounds good to me.....But it certaintly does not excuse Peter and Caspian actually shouting at each other!

Sounds like what happened with LWW is going to happen with PC. Conceptually, the LWW movie had good ideas for adaptation. But a lot of them were just poorly executed.
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Postby carol » November 29th, 2007, 6:48 am

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Postby Coyote Goodfellow » November 29th, 2007, 1:46 pm

also, in VDT Caspian and Edmund do get into a shouting match at Deathwater Island...and into pulling rank. Of course that is Edmund, rather than Peter, and they have had a long voyage together to make him much less a character out of myth than another boy.

Like Carol, I never saw Caspian as saintly, mostly because of how he behaves at the end of VDT--in PC I thought of him as sort of in over his head. Sort of like Carol I sort of identified with him: in PC I imagined having all this mythical world come alive, in VDT I imagined being now used to the idea of giving orders. It does seem like moving things up a bit to have some of those things in this movie rather than VDT, but not completely out of character for the nephew of Miraz.
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Postby glumPuddle » November 29th, 2007, 5:14 pm

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Postby Stanley Anderson » November 29th, 2007, 6:31 pm

We'll see what they actually do in the movie (I'm not too hopeful from past experience, I must admit), but what you describe sounds right in line with exactly the sort of very modern "internalizing" and emotional and psychological "realism" that they attempted in the first movie with the missing-father business with Edmund, and Peter's over-the-top lording it over Edmund (amongst several other examples).

This is a choice that the director can choose to take, and it is a direction that certainly works well for many types of films. But it is not the only direction that could be taken. And as I have mentioned in other threads about the LWW movie, it is a definite and intentional departure from the more "mythical" and archtypal (and more "innocent" if you will) style of the books. And such an approach is what leads, for example, to a viewer's somewhat uncomfortable initial feeling about seeing the adult faun asking the young girl to his apartmen--er, dwelling, don't you know.

This was a sense, by the way, that was entirely absent in the book because of the way it was written. The movie chose not to do it that way, and the way the movie chose might have its advantages, but the director needs to realize that his method can also carry other perhaps unintended baggage. And so other things like the potential flirting described for the PC movie -- depending on how it is done of course -- though it may have its benefits for the film (I have my doubts), may also introduce uncomfortable subtle sexual themes into an otherwise "clean" adventure story for children. Lots of things like this are potential side effects with such an approach.

(And please, before someone makes the tired claim about the "necessary" differences between film and written word, what I am talking about is not a limitation of film, but a definite choice by the director on how to approach the filming -- a different approach more like the book could easily be made without detracting from film quality. I can name lots of counterexamples)

Again, I don't know what they'll actually end up doing (I hope for the best but expect it will be the typical blandifications), but as I said above, the descriptions so far seem quite consistent and cut from the same piece of cloth that the first movie was, so it wouldn't surprise me.

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Postby glumPuddle » November 29th, 2007, 10:21 pm

Brilliant post, Stanley. Well said!

I think the LWW film doesn't quite know what it wants to be. On one hand, it's very much grounded in the reality of the family living during WWII, and getting caught up in a struggle to free an enslaved world. But the design makes it feel like they're going for a more "innocent" and fairytale feel like the books. I think Adamson was stuck between the book and the expectation that the LotR films set.

For a long time after seeing LWW, I kept telling myself "There's something missing," but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Since then, I have come to the conclusion that it wasn't that something was missing, it was that there was too much of something! The movie actually has too much depth, and feels too grounded in reality. I don't think I have ever had a problem with a movie having depth, so that does sound odd. But that's what makes a classic: It breaks all the rules but it works.
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Postby repectabiggle » November 29th, 2007, 10:28 pm

Interesting. I should have said there *was* something missing: namely Aslan, the Son of the Emperor Beyond the Sea. There *is* a lion in this movie, but not the Lion of the books. Remember, in the movie, it is the children who bring great hope. The contrast with the books on this point (see how the beavers constantly refer the children to the only hope to save Edmund, Tumnus, and Narnia—Aslan) couldn't be any more striking.

I can't imagine the second movie will be any less likely to leave out the central character.
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Postby David Jack » November 30th, 2007, 1:53 am

"This is and has been the Father’s work from the beginning-to bring us into the home of His heart.” George MacDonald.
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Postby glumPuddle » November 30th, 2007, 2:45 am

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Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » November 30th, 2007, 7:09 am

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Postby ArdenZ » November 30th, 2007, 4:42 pm

"The master of that servant will come on the day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour that he is not aware of."
Matthew 24:50
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Postby Paul F. Ford » December 2nd, 2007, 6:08 pm

Paul Ford—self-appointed president of the "245-3617 Club" and proud member of the "245-6317 Club"; author of the Companion to Narnia and the Pocket Companion to Narnia.
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Postby glumPuddle » December 2nd, 2007, 7:36 pm

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Postby carol » December 3rd, 2007, 9:19 am

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