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Wardrobians report on PC--Warning! Spoilers allowed!

Please don't close the door behind you.

When do you plan to see Prince Caspian?

Friday, Opening Night!
10
21%
Saturday!
5
11%
Sunday!
5
11%
I don't know, but as soon as I can.
10
21%
I don't know, but it will be out for a while, so I will let the crowds die off first.
6
13%
I am fairly indifferent--whenever I see it, I see it.
5
11%
I'm waiting for DVD.
1
2%
I'm not in the US, and it is not being released for us yet.
3
6%
I'm not really interested--I don't plan to see it.
2
4%
 
Total votes : 47

Postby Shadowland Dweller » 22 May 2008, 17:10

Dan65802 wrote:Is anyone else amazed that glumpuddle liked this movie so much?

- Dan -


yes I am. he was so......glum :wink: he looked like he was about to cry on the vlog review him and his brother did in the car, I was laughing at them...they are so cute! (and I can say that because they are WAY to young and I am WAY too unavailable...."cute" as in I would love to have them as brothers :wink: )
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Postby Shadowland Dweller » 22 May 2008, 17:13

Messenger_of_Eden wrote:Actually, in LWW the Stone Table was outside with no shrine built around it, but by the time of PC, some 1300 years later, Aslan's How had been built and was described as an ancient ruin, filled with cryptic artwork depicting ancient scenes from Narnia's golden era, although the How in the movie was far bigger and more elaborate than I had imagined.


I was thinking the same thing.....I always imagined the How as a claustrophobic place.....I never liked that part of the story in PC since I don't like cramped places. I thought the How was beautiful in the move though....I wouldn't mind living there :grin:
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Postby Shadowland Dweller » 22 May 2008, 17:16

Larry W. wrote:Anyone notice any technical errors not related directly to the story? This is a minor thing, but I heard the song of an American bird, the Swainson's Thrush in the movie, which was supposed to have been made in New Zealand. I'm a birder, and that's why I noticed it. It was just after Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy had first reentered Narnia from our world. Perhaps the song was added to soundtrack without much regard for which species the birds were. But there are no Swainson's thrushes in New Zealand and we don't know if they are in Narnia either.

Here is a link to the bird's song (and a description of the bird):

Swainson's Thrush
:lol: :lol:
dang you are good!! though, there might be a swainson thrush in Narnia :wink:
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Postby Ben2747 » 22 May 2008, 22:42

I just returned from taking my 7 and 9-year old daughters to see Prince Caspian. Bad, bad move. I had not read the reviews, in advance. I probably should have. My 9-year old summed it up pretty nicely - "Papa, that didn't seem like the people in the book. And when I read the book, in my head, I didn't see people getting hurt like that."

As a parent, I'm disappointed. I feel this was more of a PG-13 version of Prince Caspian. Susan lies about her name in the beginning of the movie. The whole overblown alpha-male thing between Caspian and Peter. The romantic thread, ending with a kiss. And the agonizing attention to the battle scenes, with some extra battles thrown in for good measure. You can actually see the characters being penetrated by blades and arrows - fine, there is no squirting gore, but it's much more than I (or my children) expected to see. I also agree with previous comments - all of the missing elements that made the book so enjoyable. The "liberation" of Beruna. Silas and his donkey. Really any sort of plot and character development - how do we know that Caspian has been longing to find Old Narnia and meet Aslan? The first scene is his escape in the night. And is it just me, or does Aslan seem like some sort of prop just thrown into the movie? What about the expectation? What about the real questions of courage and faith? Bam - there he is to come to the rescue, but that seemed pretty shallow.

And I'm sorry - this is the defensive Catholic in me. So what's with the Spanish-esque accents, dark complection, and armor clearly modeled after the Spanish Conquistadors? Aslan's How looked like some sort of Mayan ruin - was there a deliberate attempt to evoke images of Cortez and the Aztecs? And there's a character to the right of Miraz during the coronation scene - is it just me, or does he actually look like a Dominican friar? I agree with Dave's comment - "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Give me a break - have the English and Hollywood Anglophiles just not indulged in enough Spanish baiting, lately, and had to get their fix?

On a positive note, I thought the CGI graphics had really improved.

In short, I agree - you can only view this as loosely based on the book. I know that this is the risk any producer would run with books that have such an avid following, but I think this is more than the typical "let-down" for fans who can't let go and can't be satisfied. While the first movie might have had some quality and acting issues, the second one just left orbit. I bought the DVD so the kids could watch the first movie, after we saw it in the theater - I will probably not be buying the Caspian DVD when it is released. And I would suggest that parents really consider whether this movie is age-appropriate for children under 13. If they're 13 or older, fine - it's a good Hollywood show. Not much more. If they're under, it might be a bit much, especially for those of you who are selective about media in your home.

I'm actually a little surprised that Mr. Gresham did not play a more active role in controlling the direction of the movie. Sure, the Chronicles treat children as if they're able to confront some substantive issues, which they are. But they also maintain a certain innocence. This innocence might be too "costly" from the perspective of box-office draw. We all know that romance and explosions sell tickets - but I really don't need to have my kids assaulted in this way.
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Postby repectabiggle » 22 May 2008, 22:58

Great review, Ben. I'll certainly be skipping this thing.

Just curious about the following:
Give me a break - have the English and Hollywood Anglophiles just not indulged in enough Spanish baiting, lately, and had to get their fix?
I'm not sure what we're talking about here. What Spanish baiting did you have in mind? I don't watch a lot of movies, so forgive me if I'm missing something very obvious. :smile:
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Postby Pete » 22 May 2008, 23:41

repectabiggle wrote:Great review, Ben. I'll certainly be skipping this thing.


Great review? :??: It was another mostly negative one.... :thinking:
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Postby repectabiggle » 22 May 2008, 23:56

Precisely. That was why it was a great review, because it highlighted all the ways this movie failed.
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Postby Messenger_of_Eden » 23 May 2008, 01:16

Ben, the reason behind the Spanish influence in the Telmarines is actually (I think) a clever interpretation of the fact that (in the book) Aslan said that they had descended from pirates in our world, who had blundered into Narnia through an open "door". It's a little leap, but many pirates were Spanish, and this added a bit of authenticity and history to that claim, and thus the dark hair and skin and eyes, and the accents. True, Caspian is described as fair in the book, but this deviation I find forgivable, when you put it in light of the above. I never did notice a friar-type character. I'll have to watch closer next time. :smile:
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Postby glumPuddle » 23 May 2008, 08:17

Dan65802 wrote:Is anyone else amazed that glumpuddle liked this movie so much?


*raises hand* I'm shocked too! haha

They really must have captured what I love about the book, because even though there were so many changes, additions, and subtractions, I still walked out happy. Although, a big part of it is also that the PC book is so uncinamatic, so I was ready to be more forgiving. For example, I agree with the above reviewer that it was sad that they didn't show any of Caspian's longing for the old days before he fled the castle. But where would they have put it? I can't think of a great place to put it in a movie. Sad, but true.

This isn't a "great" film, but I would call it "quite good."
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Postby Ben2747 » 23 May 2008, 13:11

Messenger_of_Eden wrote:Ben, the reason behind the Spanish influence in the Telmarines is actually (I think) a clever interpretation of the fact that (in the book) Aslan said that they had descended from pirates in our world, who had blundered into Narnia through an open "door". It's a little leap, but many pirates were Spanish, and this added a bit of authenticity and history to that claim, and thus the dark hair and skin and eyes, and the accents. True, Caspian is described as fair in the book, but this deviation I find forgivable, when you put it in light of the above. I never did notice a friar-type character. I'll have to watch closer next time. :smile:


So I'll respond to a couple of posts in this one - the first with Spanish baiting, and the second with pirates. Yes, I figured that they used the piracy "ancestry" as the justification - but why didn't they choose English, or Dutch, or Portuguese, or French? Not that Spaniards can't be fair - I went to grad school in Spain, so I'm aware of that. My point is that Spaniards didn't corner the market on piracy. Incidentally, if any of you ARE looking for a good pirate book, check out Howard Pyle's book - I think it's published by Dover. I think you'll enjoy it.

Now about the Spanish baiting - I was thinking about works of propaganda published in England, like "The Horrors of the Spanish Inquisition." Clear falsification of fact, intended to accentuate xenophobia and play nationalism against faith - which, as Chesterton and Belloc point out, they do rather successfully. I think the producers should have been more sensitive to this history, and avoided perpetuating any sort of Anglo-Iberian cultural hostilities. I do not think it will be appreciated in Spain.
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Postby Dan65802 » 23 May 2008, 14:49

Ben2747 wrote:You can actually see the characters being penetrated by blades and arrows - fine, there is no squirting gore, but it's much more than I (or my children) expected to see.


It is very different to read about the violence of battle in PC than to see it played out on the big screen before your eyes. Still, I'd rather children see some of the realities of warfare rather than just a glorified "disneyfication".

Ben2747 wrote:Aslan's How looked like some sort of Mayan ruin - was there a deliberate attempt to evoke images of Cortez and the Aztecs?


I hadn't thought about that, and I'm not sure if the attempt was deliberate, but if it was, it does make and arguably applicable analogy (how's that for aliteration?).

Ben2747 wrote:the first with Spanish baiting, and the second with pirates. Yes, I figured that they used the piracy "ancestry" as the justification - but why didn't they choose English, or Dutch, or Portuguese, or French?


Then someone would be complaining, "Why did they choose the English", or "the Dutch", or "the Portugese", etc.

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Postby Stanley Anderson » 23 May 2008, 16:28

Dan65802 wrote:
Ben2747 wrote:the first with Spanish baiting, and the second with pirates. Yes, I figured that they used the piracy "ancestry" as the justification - but why didn't they choose English, or Dutch, or Portuguese, or French?


Then someone would be complaining, "Why did they choose the English", or "the Dutch", or "the Portugese", etc.



As homeschooling parents, whenever the subject of homeschooling would come up with "outsiders" I used to joke about how I could mouth right along with the other person's very first words out of their mouths, "...but what about socialization?" -- to which they would look in astonishement and wonder how I knew that not only were they going to ask about that, but in EXACTLY those words with exactly that intonation. They didn't realize how strongly (and unconsciously) they had been "indoctrinated" to think that thought with exactly those words.

In any case, the situation is pretty similar with just about any anti-Catholic viewpoint -- you can bet that virtually the first thing out of anyone's mouth who wants to tell you why the Catholic Church is so rotten is something like "well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?" (in this case maybe not always that exact phrase as is the case with the homeschooling comment, but close enough).

I mean, really, can you honestly think someone would actually say "Why did they choose the English", or "the Dutch", or "the Portugese" if that were the case? I suspect anyone who knew enough about piracy to be able to say such a thing would already be so far past the idea of stereotypes that they wouldn't need to ask that sort of question in the first place. Rather self-defeating, sort of like Groucho Marx's statement (I think -- was he the first? I know Woody Allen quotes him in Annie Hall), something like, "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have people like me as a member". The question goes away in the midst of of its very formation.

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Postby Dan65802 » 23 May 2008, 16:35

Stanley Anderson wrote:I mean, really, can you honestly think someone would actually say "Why did they choose the English", or "the Dutch", or "the Portugese" if that were the case?


Maybe not the English, since everyone else in the movie is English. But if the bad guys were Dutch or Portugese, yes there would be complaints. Mostly from Dutch and Portuguese.

But to be honest, I can't think of anyone who would watch PC and think, "Ah, just like the Spanish Inquisition".

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Postby Stanley Anderson » 23 May 2008, 17:18

Dan65802 wrote:But to be honest, I can't think of anyone who would watch PC and think, "Ah, just like the Spanish Inquisition".


Think hard (hint: you were originally replying to someone who thought almost precisely that about the movie -- although admittedly in a cynical/sarcastic/knowing way)

But to address your general point, that is why I used the homeschooling example -- because the response is so automatic it is nearly, if not entirely subconscious. The "connection" is already there without having to make the thought consciously or to even realize that the connection is there.

(By the way, I'm only defending the discussion point here -- the Spanish thing didn't really bother me all that much as an "atmosphere" in the movie, but I can understand Ben's point about it.)

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…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby Shadowland Dweller » 23 May 2008, 17:24

glumPuddle wrote:
Dan65802 wrote:Is anyone else amazed that glumpuddle liked this movie so much?


*raises hand* I'm shocked too! haha

They really must have captured what I love about the book, because even though there were so many changes, additions, and subtractions, I still walked out happy. Although, a big part of it is also that the PC book is so uncinamatic, so I was ready to be more forgiving. For example, I agree with the above reviewer that it was sad that they didn't show any of Caspian's longing for the old days before he fled the castle. But where would they have put it? I can't think of a great place to put it in a movie. Sad, but true.

This isn't a "great" film, but I would call it "quite good."



I agree with you about the book being slow, I remember when I was much younger, my mom would read a chapter a night of LWW to my older brother and I, then I read it on my own and naturally, when I finished, went to the next :wink: book, PC, I think I started it 3-4 times, it was so slow and hard to get into. The movie was good in that it drew me in right away. I was disappointed that the nurse wasn't in there, that was my favorite plot in the book I think. It was still an enjoyable movie that I will own, I will probably read PC again too.... :grin:


as a side note, oh my goodness I am so tired of when talking with my DiG kids about the books, having to talk about order of books......they say "second book" and I have no idea what they are talking about, they talk about a witch....then I have to say...."ooooooh, yes that was actually the first book then there is much discussion and then the original question is nearly lost in the hubbub :rolleyes:
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