This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Please don't close the door behind you.

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby rusmeister » January 5th, 2010, 6:33 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby Larry W. » January 5th, 2010, 12:58 pm

I wonder what people would have thought if Lewis had a female Calormene hero in The Horse and His Boy. Lasalareen isn't a bad character and quite likable if you don't mind her silliness, but her shallowness prevents her from being a real hero. She adds some humor to the story, though a serious Calormene woman might have been better. However, real life isn't filled with deep thinkers. Lucy and Jill are examples of positive female characters, but there aren't any counterparts of them in the Calormenes. Some more "gray" characters (characters who aren't good or bad all of the time) might have been better for realism among the Narnians, Archenlanders, and Calormenes. But many older books have characters that are either almost entirely good or bad-- look at the difference between Fagin and Oliver in Dickens' Oliver Twist. It seems unreal, even though that book is considered by many to be classic novel with a good story. :smile:

Larry W.
Larry W.
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Western Michigan

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby archenland_knight » January 5th, 2010, 3:16 pm

Would Aravis not be a Calormene female hero? True, she was a bit snobbish, but not evil by any means. And she was quite helpful to Shasta/Cor. Even though she was reluctant to join forces, she stuck by him once she made the committment.

I've always thought Aravis to be a very strong character. She defies her culture to do what she believed was right. That alone is heroic. And even though she is a "dark-skinned Calormene" she eventually becomes queen of Archenland.
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
User avatar
archenland_knight
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Obviously at a computer keyboard

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby Larry W. » January 5th, 2010, 4:23 pm

That's something to consider. And probably she was made stronger because she wasn't perfect, although I'm not sure if she was actually a hero. Perhaps she was a good queen. Her snobbishness was a little irritating, but it wasn't nearly as obnoxious as Eustace's or Edmund's behavior before they were changed by Aslan. Aravis certainly wasn't all bad. :smile:

Larry W.
Larry W.
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Western Michigan

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby Mr Hooper » January 6th, 2010, 8:42 pm

User avatar
Mr Hooper
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Apr 2008

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby archenland_knight » January 8th, 2010, 10:29 pm

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
User avatar
archenland_knight
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Obviously at a computer keyboard

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby Mr Hooper » January 9th, 2010, 1:15 am

I have also met and worked with Indians, people from various Muslim countries, Albanians, South Americans etc. Most have been friendly to me personally, but frequently hostile to Western culture. They are often fiercely nationalistic and protective of their own culture, which they do indeed see as superior in many cases (one could argue that they need to be, in the face of western dominance). In the UK, one can perhaps put the reluctance to champion western culture down to post-colonial guilt, at least in part. Not sure about where it stems from in the US mindset.

I currently live in Greece, but here also, in the supposed cradle of Western civilisation, there is an enormous amount of hostility, this time towards American and British culture especially, and more generally towards the sort of modern western culture that they deem to have departed from the Greek ideal. What becomes clear is that people define themselves, on a national level, by pointing out what is lacking in other cultures, by making negative comparisons. It's mostly about pride, or seems to be: pride on the national level feeds pride in one's self for belonging to that group, to that country, to the elect. In other words, it's ego-driven, and it all flows back to oneself. It is also frequently hypocritical, as people who often assert their culture's superiority are frequent consumers of foreign culture and goods (they watch, for example, versions of American shows, wear American fashions etc.)

I don't really understand what is going on countries like the UK though. There might seem, on the surface, to be less pride, but I don't think there is real humility either. Modern cultural theorists seem to be eager to wash their hands of their ancestors, but they appear to be ego-driven in other ways, perhaps as belonging to some sort of enlightened global community that is post just about everything (colonial, modern etc.) I don't really understand it very well and I'm sure someone here will be able to articulate it better than I. The only thing I can say with surety, from experience as I have indicated, is that other nations are proud of their culture and are only too happy to put western culture down. To them, all cultures most certainly are not equal.
User avatar
Mr Hooper
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Apr 2008

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby MotherLodeBeth » January 25th, 2010, 8:30 am

Growing up in the 50's there were no non whites in our small community, but it wasn't a racist place. I read the Chronicles of Narnia and see lots of diversity in the characters which suggests he was not at all a racist or sexist. Would he have made Lucy such a strong character had he been sexist? And the fact that in his private life he married a divorced woman and a non Christian suggests to me he was more open minded than some give him credit for. Have always appreciated the fact C. S. Lewis was not loud and obnoxious.

~Beth~
:~:Am very much like Lucy in that I
am plain but trust the Lord with all
my heart:~:
User avatar
MotherLodeBeth
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sierras of California

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby brian7 » June 9th, 2010, 12:44 am

CON have elements of sexism and racism, but I don't think he was necessarily conscious of them. He was from a different generation with different viewpoints. He was a good man and didn't mean anything racist or sexist by his portrayals but nonetheless they are there.
brian7
 
Posts: 3
Joined: May 2008

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby rusmeister » June 9th, 2010, 2:21 am

Last edited by rusmeister on September 16th, 2010, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Was C. S. Lewis sexist/racist? Join our discussion!

Postby Nerd42 » June 21st, 2010, 4:35 pm

Racist? No.

Sexist? I think we need to ask if Paul was sexist first.
Nerd42
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jul 2009

Previous

Return to The Chronicles of Narnia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 20 guests

cron