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What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

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What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Jenn » 22 Oct 2004, 22:37

Does anyone know who said something along this line in one of the Chronicles of Narnia? It keeps coming up in my mind ... I know it was somewhere in there ...(?)
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Leslie » 22 Oct 2004, 22:40

I believe it was the Professor at the end of LWW - "it's all in Plato" etc.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Erekose » 23 Oct 2004, 09:06

The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe Chapter 5 Back on This Side of the Door


Its when Peter and Susan are asking Digory's advice about Lucy's story.

'Nothing is more probable,' said the Professor, taking off his spectacles and beginning to polish them, while he muttered to himself, 'I wonder what they do teach them at these schools."



Ironically this is something I often wonder myself. An important thing to learn is HOW to learn. And around here the ability to think and reach conclusions based on events and things said is something that emost people and not just the children seem to lack.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Jenn » 23 Oct 2004, 14:02

You said and I agree:

Ironically this is something I often wonder myself. An important thing to learn is HOW to learn. And around here the ability to think and reach conclusions based on events and things said is something that emost people and not just the children seem to lack.


But I would take it just a bit further: remember in The Silver Chair ...
when the Green Witch is sitting in her room with the children after they have broken up the silver chair ... strumming on her guitar and saying "what is this SUN you're talking about?" ... strum strum strum ... and her fire is sending out drugged smoke and the children are falling under the spell ... "right, there is no sun" ... well ... THAT's what people are like today; where is that good marshwiggle foot ... to stomp the fire and bring back ... the overworld.

(see the post about History in Current Events ... what are they teaching in the schools these days?)
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby a_hnau » 23 Oct 2004, 19:50

I don't think there is any shortage of voices... Screwtape says somewhere that the devils have managed to get the sensible writers pretty much ignored. People say that Christians don't make their views known - hence we are in a way 'blamed' for the general prevalence of amoral values and so on. I disagree - having listened to BBC Radio 4 a lot recently, including some of Westminster Today, I have several times heard very explicitly and clearly, on national media and in the House of Commons, some views I would strongly agree with - pro-life, against unrestrained genetic experimentation, and so on. It's just that these views are 'unpopular' and derided. Well, people will think what they want to, but it's worse for them if truth has been plainly stated and they have chosen to disregard it.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby john » 24 Oct 2004, 09:09

How's this for a coincidence?

Quotation for Sunday, October 24, 2004:

"Why don't they teach logic at these schools? There are only three possibilities. Either your sister is telling lies, or she is mad, or she is telling the truth. You know she doesn't lie and it is obvious she is not mad. For the moment then and unless any further evidence turns up, we must assume that she is telling the truth."

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Jenn » 24 Oct 2004, 14:55

I learned to WATCH coincidences. They are one of His marks.

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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Larry W. » 04 Nov 2004, 12:31

Perhaps that during the time The Lion, the Witch, and Wardrobe was set in --during the Second World War-- reading and studying fairy tales might not have been encouraged in the elementary schools. I recall reading that Lewis had some negative experiences with the schools as a child, and this may have been a comment relating to that, although I am not certain. At that time stories about other worlds would often have been frowned upon-- whether they were true or not. When the Narnia books were published, fantasy stories became more popular as imagination would then be considered to be more beneficial for children.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby loeee » 04 Nov 2004, 18:14

Larry W. wrote:Perhaps that during the time The Lion, the Witch, and Wardrobe was set in --during the Second World War-- reading and studying fairy tales might not have been encouraged in the elementary schools. I recall reading that Lewis had some negative experiences with the schools as a child, and this may have been a comment relating to that, although I am not certain. At that time stories about other worlds would often have been frowned upon-- whether they were true or not. When the Narnia books were published, fantasy stories became more popular as imagination would then be considered to be more beneficial for children.


But the quote isn't about fantasy, it's about logic. I think it relates rather well to The Abolition of Man. Remember, Lewis was an educator, and he was concerned about the direction he saw education taking.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Larry W. » 05 Nov 2004, 04:15

I'm not so sure that it isn't about fantasy. They are talking about the existence of other worlds. Although it is true that there is a certain logic in believing what Lucy says is true, as the Professor says, they are also talking the existence of Narnia outside this world. To grasp that such a world exists (have the imagination for it) one must read the right books, e.g. fairy tales. Remember Eustace in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, who had read only books about exports and drains but needed something more imaginative. Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy also needed an understanding of fairy tales to help in knowing Narnia and later, Aslan. It is closer to a knowledge of the heart. This is something different than mathematical logic, which certainly would not be enough to comprehend Narnia and the Lion who made it.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Guest » 11 Nov 2004, 04:32

Maybe it is about both fantasy and logic. Perhaps the point is that the two do not have to be seperate. Some things that we deem fantasy, like the existance of other worlds, are not logically impossible, but due to what is often taught in schools, we tend to think they are.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby a_hnau » 11 Nov 2004, 11:36

See also the bit in Perelandra where Lewis writes about the psychological effect of discovering that there are creatures (eldila) who fall across the distinction (now shown to be a false dichotomy) between material and incorporeal (I'm at work so can't dig out exactly how he expresses this).
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Larry W. » 11 Nov 2004, 15:00

I guess this is something like debating whether science or mathematics is closer to the truth. In math one deals with numbers (something I'm not very good at) but you always (or nearly always) can know if your answer is correct. It is almost a perfect logic. Scientists can explore hypothetical worlds based on what they know, but there is always a chance that something will be discovered and they will have to change their views. This is especially true in astronomy-- there are many things that astronomers know now that they were unaware of in Kepler's and Galileo's time.

But getting back to the topic, aren't fantasy stories or fairy tales set in a kind of similar hypothetical world which has its own logic? I don't think one can know them without understanding how their worlds work. For example, in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe Professor Kirke explained to the children that Narnia has its own time and, for the most part, its own rules. This logic was essential for Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy to know before entering that world.
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Jenn » 13 Nov 2004, 14:23

Larry W said:

Remember Eustace in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, who had read only books about exports and drains but needed something more imaginative. Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy also needed an understanding of fairy tales to help in knowing Narnia and later, Aslan. It is closer to a knowledge of the heart. This is something different than mathematical logic, which certainly would not be enough to comprehend Narnia and the Lion who made it.


That is beautiful! ... and reminds me of one of C.S. Lewis's poems I love:

[quote]THE COUNTRY OF THE BLIND

Hard light bathed them-- a whole nation of eyeless men,
Dark bipeds not aware how they were maimed. A long
Process, clearly, a slow curse,
Drained through centuries, left them thus.

At some transitional stage, then, a luckless few,
No doubt, must have had eyes after the up-to-date,
Normal type had achieved snug
Darkness, safe from the guns of heav'n;

Whose blind mouths would abuse words that belonged to their
Great-grandsires, unabashed, talking of light in some
Eunuch'd, etiolated,
Fungoid sense, as a symbol of

Abstract thoughts. If a man, one that had eyes, a poor
Misfit, spoke of the grey dawn or the stars or green-
Sloped sea waves, or admired how
Warm tints change in a lady's cheek,

None complained he had used words from an alien tongue,
None question'd. It was worse. All would agree. 'Of course,'
Came their answer. 'We've all felt
Just like that.' They were wrong. And he

Knew too much to be clear, could not explain. The words--
Sold, raped, flung to the dogs--now could avail no more;
Hence silence. But the mouldwarps,
With glib confidence, easily

Showed how tricks of the phrase, sheer metaphors could set
Fools concocting a myth, taking the words for things.
Do you think this a far-fetched
Picture? Go then about among

Men now famous; attempt speech on the truths that once,
Opaque, carved in divine forms, irremovable,
Dread but dear as a mountain-
Mass, stood plain to the inward eye.[/
quote]

---------------
Another quote:

"They turned and walked back together, shedding bitter tears."
The Last Battle
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Re: What DO they teach them in the schools these days?

Postby Stanley Anderson » 13 Nov 2004, 15:45

Imagination.

It's all in Play-Doh! What DO they teach them in the schools these days.

--Stanley
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