Deathly Hallows Reading Group [warning: spoilers!]

[JRosemary]

Texascat posted:

Does anyone else feel like Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him as a last resort to save Draco from having to do it? I vagueling remember Harry overhearing Dumbledore and Snape arguing about something. I think that's what it was about.

Yes--I think Snape is on the right side and I do think that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to go ahead and kill him, thereby:

A. Allowing Snape to remain undercover and

B. Preventing Draco Malfoy from commiting a murder--he's just a kid, after all.

I've loved Snape's character from first to last--he seems to prove that it's possible to be good without being nice. That's a lesson that Harry hasn't caught on to yet...he still judges people by their niceness.

[Tsuriel]

Newbie here, but I know a couple others here. I'm one of those who avoided the 'evil' of the Potter-verse until I found a couple of books showing that Harry & Co are not only NOT promoting witchcraft but demonstrate some very good things for young readers. I am now of the opinion that some kids might fall into darker arts but if diligent parents monitor their children's reading and talk with them about the books, no prob!

Anyway... I am re-reading HBP too & have pre-ordered my copy of the 7th book.

Dan, Crookshanks in part kneazle. I thought as must when I read Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and Wikipedia says as much:

Crookshanks, Hermione Granger's pet, is half-Kneazle, which explains why he recognises that Scabbers, Ron Weasley's pet rat, is actually Peter Pettigrew, an Animagus.

That would be a strange form for another animagus to take! Still, I believe that JKR is the queen of red herrings, so I wouldn't be surprised if ANY late characters turned out not to be deceased!

Pilgrim, I'm thinking Harry will not survive this book for many reasons. I heard a theory that Harry might BE Tommy's last horcrux and therefore must die to completely kill Voldy.

texascat, Snape: on which side? I'm still on the fence about that. One moment I think he loyal to the Dark Lord; the next he seems to sincerely serve Dumbledore. Dumbledore might have known is was dying from that nasty drink he took to uncover a false horcrux and invited Snape to finish the work to both say Draco and keep Snape in good standing with the Death Eaters, as JRosemary said. Who'd think he could kill the headmaster/Phoenix leader not not be and loyal DE?

Have any of you ever discussed the possibilty that clues have been dropped that Snape is a vampire?

Enough for now. Awaiting the magical day the books arrive!

[Guest]

On the subject of dying in bravery, I think Neville could too, he seems like he will.

I was kind of hoping Neville and Luna would get together.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of the twins gets the chop as well.

Weasley's or Patil's?

Does anyone else feel like Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him as a last resort to save Draco from having to do it?

I think you've hit it on the nose. I also think that Dumbledore was already dying.

I don't think the book is going to be the wholesale death-o-rama that some have suggested. In each of the last 3 books someone has died, and the importance of the dying character has increased in each book. If someone more important than Dumbledore was to die, I suppose that only leaves one of the big 3 to meet their demise. Jim Dale let slip in late 2005 that Rowling wanted to kill off Harry in the last book.

I think Dumbledore is truly dead, but at least one person has listed clues to say that Dumbledore is alive: http://www.beyondhogwarts.com/harry-potter/articles/dumbledore-clues.html

I think it's also possible that we'll see the redemption of Draco Malfoy in book 7.

- Dan -

[Pilgrim]

Does anyone else feel like Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him as a last resort to save Draco from having to do it? I vagueling remember Harry overhearing Dumbledore and Snape arguing about something. I think that's what it was about.

I feel that's a huge possibility. I didn't remember that converstaion before, but I do now. It does seem to me that Snape being pure evil would be too easy. We were lead to believe he is more complex. But maybe that was just a facade...

I heard a theory that Harry might BE Tommy's last horcrux and therefore must die to completely kill Voldy.

That would explain a lot (the scar with it's Voldemort senses, the kind of twin connection with him, parseltongue), but Harry would have to be an accidental horcrux or something because why would Voldemort try to kill him?

Concerning Dumbledore and that potion he had to drink in HPB, couldn't he have just poured the potion on the ground or something?

[texascat]

I was kind of hoping Neville and Luna would get together.

True that.

I think Dumbledore is truly dead

Double true.

[texascat]

I think it's also possible that we'll see the redemption of Draco Malfoy in book 7.

Dan, I don't see this one coming. Snape, yes, but not Draco. I don't think he's a cold-blooded killer and his hesitation to kill Dumbledore has a slightly redeeming quality, but that's about it. He's a lost cause.

I don't think Harry will die. It's just too tragic in an Eastern-martial arts epic sort of way. Harry has spiralled downward in the last two books. It's just too depressing to have him die alone.

Maybe Harry will eventually grow up to be the headmaster of Hogwarts!

[JRosemary]

I think it's also possible that we'll see the redemption of Draco Malfoy in book 7.

Dan, I don't see this one coming. Snape, yes, but not Draco. I don't think he's a cold-blooded killer and his hesitation to kill Dumbledore has a slightly redeeming quality, but that's about it. He's a lost cause.

I don't think Harry will die. It's just too tragic in an Eastern-martial arts epic sort of way. Harry has spiralled downward in the last two books. It's just too depressing to have him die alone.

Maybe Harry will eventually grow up to be the headmaster of Hogwarts!

I have to disagree about Draco, Texascat. First off, I'd never call anyone a lost cause--especially a kid!

Secondly, Draco's seen a killing now. And, if memory serves, he reacted with shock, not delight. And he couldn't bring himself to kill Dumbledore to begin with. No, I think there's still hope for this kid.

[JRosemary]

One other thing--one of the real tragedies I see in this series is the dislike and misunderstandings between Snape and Harry. This is more Snape's fault than Harry's; he's the adult, after all.

But did anyone else notice that Harry never went up to Snape after the first novel to say, "Hey, thanks for saving my life during the quidditch match?" And later Harry didn't have enough sense to take Snape's warnings about the importance of shielding his mind from Voldemort seriously--with disastrous results.

Sigh. I'm convinced these two are on the same side--but somehow they're always at cross purposes.

I hope that these two come to a better understanding of each other in the last novel--but I'm not holding my breath

[Guest]

Dan, I don't see this one (the redemption of Draco Malfoy) coming. Snape, yes, but not Draco.

You could be right. But Rowling made us sympathetic towards Draco in Half-Blood Prince and that was someplace she'd never brought us before. I just thought that perhaps she was leading us somewhere.

It's just too depressing to have him die alone.

I don't think he'll die alone. I think he'll somehow take Voldemort with him. Yes, there is something a bit depressing in the death's of John Proctor in The Crucible, of Merimee's Carmen, Qui Gon Jinn in Star Wars, Guido in Life is Beautiful, and even Jack in Titanic. But their deaths also made us value who they were and reminded us of the truth that there is no greater love than he who sacrifices his life for his friends.

- Dan -

[Guest]

One other thing--one of the real tragedies I see in this series is the dislike and misunderstandings between Snape and Harry. This is more Snape's fault than Harry's; he's the adult, after all.

But did anyone else notice that Harry never went up to Snape after the first novel to say, "Hey, thanks for saving my life during the quidditch match?" And later Harry didn't have enough sense to take Snape's warnings about the importance of shielding his mind from Voldemort seriously--with disastrous results.

Sigh. I'm convinced these two are on the same side--but somehow they're always at cross purposes.

I hope that these two come to a better understanding of each other in the last novel--but I'm not holding my breath

I agree. Kind of. I certainly think, after Harry saw what a prat his dad was to Snape during their school years, Harry might have actually identified with Snape a bit.

But then again, the animosity between them is delicious sometimes.

- Dan -

[john]

But then again, the animosity between them is delicious sometimes.

Yeah, but what kind of adult actually holds a grudge and shows such hostility towards a child of only 10?

JRosemary said, "...he seems to prove that it's possible to be good without being nice." I don't really care that Snape is most likely on "the good side". What does it matter what "side" somebody is on if they act so awful towards people...especially children? The man is an arrogant bully. Period.

But all that said, I do still like his character very much.

[Guest]

But all that said, I do still like his character very much.

In one of the first few chapters of Half-Blood Prince Harry get's a message from Snape. The girl who brings the message says something like, "Professor Snape wants you to be at detention at 7:00. You'll be separating diseased maggots from healthy ones. He says there's no need to bring your protective gloves."

That's just too funny.

- Dan -

[Tsuriel]

Speaking of Snape's prejudices concerning Harry, I think they are no different from Sirius' but in reverse. Both based their feelings on their relationship with JAMES Potter, good and bad.

I'm a fan of seeing Neville & Luna link up, too.

Has the subject of Dumbledore being an animagus ever been discussed? One popular opinion at our house is that the 'tawny owl' often seen on Privet Drive was the Headmaster himself. Another is that he is a phoenix and might just rise from his own ashes (so to speak). Clue #9 on the list of Dumbledore Clues hints at it. Personally, I wasn't too happy about Spock cheating death in the Star Trek movie and I'd be just as unhappy if Dumbledore does it as well.

We shall soon see!

[Leslie]

Here's another theory of mine. There's something about that Crookshanks that makes me wonder if there's something more than just a kitty there.

I'd make a wild guess that maybe Regulus is an animagus disguised as Crookshanks, but the thought of Regulus curled up to sleep on a young girls bed nightly is a bit creepy.

- Dan -

I've just been looking through JKR's official website, and she straightout denies that Crookshanks is an animagus, but she says he's not pure cat, either.

[Guest]

I've just read an interesting article on Christianity Today's website about Harry being a Christ figure. It is an excerpt from John Granger's book Looking for God in Harry Potter One of the interesting points is that in each of the first 6 books (although the excerpt only includes the first 5), Harry descends somewhere (symbolizing death), does battle, and is then ascends (symbolizing resurrection). You can read the article here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/sacrificialboywizard.html

- Dan -