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Suppressed by Jack

The man. The myth.

Suppressed by Jack

Postby The Quangle Wangle » May 31st, 2009, 12:13 pm

So what was the 'huge and complex episode' that C S Lewis omitted from Suprised by Joy?
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby Sven » May 31st, 2009, 5:27 pm

Mrs. Moore.
Rat! he found breath to whisper, shaking. Are you afraid?
Afraid? murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love.
Afraid! Of Him? O, never, never! And yet -- and yet -- O, Mole, I am afraid!
Then the two animals, crouching to the earth, bowed their heads and did worship.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby The Quangle Wangle » June 1st, 2009, 11:43 am

Is that definitely known to be the case?
Last edited by The Quangle Wangle on December 1st, 2009, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby Leslie » June 1st, 2009, 11:16 pm

It 's the only thing known about him that fits the description of "huge and complex" to that point in his life that he doesn't mention in SBJ, and the timing is right for where he mentions it in SBJ - just as he returned to Oxford after WWI, which is when Mrs. Moore and her daughter moved to Oxford from Bristol, and Lewis writes to Arthur Greeves about regularly spending each afternoon with the Moores. He also says in SBJ that through the missing episode his "earlier hostility to the emotions was very fully and variously avenged" -- so the love affair seems to fit the bill.

So unless someone can suggest another 'episode' that better fits the record, the Mrs Moore theory has to be the most plausible one.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby moordarjeeling » November 15th, 2009, 8:09 pm

We might all try minding our own business.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby larry gilman » November 18th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Eh? You mean, read no biographies and no letters collections? Or only those that contain nothing that their subjects would not have confessed through a megaphone from a rooftop? It's one possible policy, I suppose . . .
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby rusmeister » November 19th, 2009, 4:08 am

Mordarjeeling is absolutely right.
She is talking about the primarily prurient interest in uncovering details about an alleged sin of Lewis's. I don't think she means "read no biographies or letters". But if those letters were actually intended to be private, and not shared (particularly information of an intimate nature), then what about the admonition to not read other people's mail? Would we want people airing foolish and hurtful sins, sexual or otherwise; IOW, do unto others...? Do not we all wish that our sins would really be taken away and remembered no more?

Of course, CS Lewis was a sinner. But I am the chief of sinners, and when it comes to examining sins, I should, generally speaking, stick to my own.

"Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!" should be our prayer when we even hear about things like this.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby moordarjeeling » November 19th, 2009, 6:56 am

What did Lewis himself say about such poking into authors' private lives?

On the one hand, that was in another century, and most of its people are dead. Far on that hand, I haven't heard that Lewis disapproved looking for the historical Beatrice or the Dark Lady.

On the other hand, in _The Personal Heresy_ and _The Poison of Subjectivism_ Lewis rejects the notion that literature is about the writer's personality and/or personal life. So there goes that possible justification for poking around in case the secret should turn out useful in criticism.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby moordarjeeling » November 19th, 2009, 7:23 am

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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby larry gilman » November 19th, 2009, 3:57 pm

Last edited by larry gilman on November 19th, 2009, 4:43 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby Leslie » November 19th, 2009, 4:13 pm

"What are you laughing at?"
"At myself. My little puny self," said Phillipa.
--Rumer Godden, In This House of Brede
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby larry gilman » November 19th, 2009, 4:34 pm

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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby rusmeister » November 19th, 2009, 6:18 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby Leslie » November 19th, 2009, 6:26 pm

replaced by post below
Last edited by Leslie on November 19th, 2009, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suppressed by Jack

Postby Leslie » November 19th, 2009, 7:18 pm

Larry, as I look back I see that I did present a very muddled argument. I had three things going on in my head:

1. The 'non-sexual theory' does not negate the 'Mrs Moore' answer to the original question of this thread.

2. If the sexual relationship ceased when Lewis became a Christian, then 'liar' and 'fornicator' apply only to his non-Christian period, and need not detract from the integrity of his Christian writings.

3. If moordarjeeling finds the sexual theory too jarring for his or her sensibilities, there are other theories that permit Lewis to be 'in love' with Mrs Moore, as he stated in his letters, without sex. So I was trying to give him or her something to cling to. But I shouldn't have called the sexual theory 'jumping to a conclusion'.
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