Origin of name Narnia

[Guest]

In one of Pliny the Younger's letters in Book I, he refers to a villa owned by his mother-in-law as a very pleasant place. The villa is called Narnia.

Did C.S. Lewis ever say or write anything indicating that he got the name Narnia from Pliny's works? Because of his strong interest in the classics, this seems at least plausible.

Jim Goble

[Aleena]

c'mon everyone, this has got me really curious and i want to know if anyone has the answer!

[john]

c'mon everyone, this has got me really curious and i want to know if anyone has the answer!

One needs only go as far as the FAQ on this site to shed some light on this:

Where did C. S. Lewis come up with the word "Narnia"?

According to Paul Ford's Companion to Narnia: "..There is no indication that [Lewis] was alluding to the ancient Umbrian city Nequinium, renamed Narnia (after the river Nar, a tributary of the Tiber) by the conquering Romans in 299 BC. Since Lewis's first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature.

"Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."

Thank you, Paul Ford, for the information.

[carol]

On the other hand, the Italian town of Narni/Narnia has been doing a big local push for the Narnia stories,.... and promoting their town to the world. Theres a thread over on Narnia where a Narni resident regularly tells about it.

[Aleena]

thank you very much!
:)

[fgiusepp]

In one of Pliny the Younger's letters in Book I, he refers to a villa owned by his mother-in-law as a very pleasant place. The villa is called Narnia.

Did C.S. Lewis ever say or write anything indicating that he got the name Narnia from Pliny's works? Because of his strong interest in the classics, this seems at least plausible.

Jim Goble

I live in Narnia in Italy now this town , are named Narni
******************************
and Pliny the Younger refers to a villa owned by his mother-in-law as a very pleasant place that are very close to Rome .

If you want I can tell you more.......................................

[fgiusepp]

On the other hand, the Italian town of Narni/Narnia has been doing a big local push for the Narnia stories,.... and promoting their town to the world. Theres a thread over on Narnia where a Narni resident regularly tells about it.

Dear Carol and Friends for us in Narni in Italy Narnia are a very beautiful book also because we have a very big History till 299 BC. And many think to show , for exemple in this period we have " The race to the ring" a very interesting medioeval festival for about 20 day.
you can see[url] www.corsallanello.it[/url]

[Stanley Anderson]

In one of Pliny the Younger's letters in Book I, he refers to a villa owned by his mother-in-law as a very pleasant place. The villa is called Narnia.

Did C.S. Lewis ever say or write anything indicating that he got the name Narnia from Pliny's works? Because of his strong interest in the classics, this seems at least plausible.

Jim Goble

My wife Angelee was reading to our son Gawain (whom we homeschool) some classic texts and one of them was a letter to Gallus from Pliny the Younger. She hadn't read it before and when she did, she was so intrigued that she called me at work to read it to me over the phone. It was fascinating and peculiarly relevant to these forums perhaps. See what you think. Here it is:
---------------------------------------

…My wife's grandfather asked me to look around his estate near Ameria. As I was walking over his grounds I was shown a lake that lies below them, called Vadimon, and given at the same time an incredible account of it. So I went close up to this lake. It is exactly circular; there is not the least break or bend in the circle, but all is regular and just as if it had been hollowed and cut out by the hand of art. The colour of its water is a whitish-blue, verging upon green, and somewhat cloudy; that has the odour of sulphur and a strong medicinal taste, and possesses the property of cementing fractures. Though it is but of moderate extent, yet the winds have a great effect on it, throwing it into violent commotion.

No vessels are permitted to sail here, as its waters are held sacred; but several grassy islands swim about it, covered with reeds and rushes, and whatever other plants the more prolific neighboring marsh and the borders of the lake produce. No two islands are alike in size or shape; but the edges of all of them are worn away by their frequent collision against the shore and one another.

They have all the same depth, and the same buoyancy; for the shallow bases are formed like the hull of a boat. This formation is distinctly visible from every point of view; the hull lies half above and half below the water. Sometimes the islands cluster together and seem to form one entire little continent; Sometimes they are dispersed by veering winds; at times, when it is calm, they desert their station and float up and down separately.

You may frequently see one of the larger islands sailing along with a lesser joined to it, like a ship with its long boat; or perhaps, seeming to strive which shall outswim the other; then again all are driven to one spot of the shore of which they thus form a prolongation. In one place or another they are constantly diminishing or restoring the area of the lake, only ceasing to contract it anywhere, when they occupy the center. Cattle have often been known, while grazing, to advance upon those islands as upon the border of the lake, without perceiving that they are on moving ground, till, being carried away from shore, they are alarmed by finding themselves surrounded by water, as if they had been put on board ship; and when they presently land wherever the wind drives them ashore, they are no more conscious of disembarking than they had been of embarking. This lake empties itself into a river, which after running a little way above ground sinks into a cavern and pursues a subterraneous course, and if anything is thrown in brings it up again where the stream emerges.
----------------------

I'm posting this here because of the Pliny thread connection, but I suppose it properly belongs in either the Perelandra Study or Space Trilogy forum too. I may post a copy of it in one of those places (or perhaps, does it qualify as a "keeper" instead, DZ?)

--Stanley

[fgiusepp]

In one of Pliny the Younger's letters in Book I, he refers to a villa owned by his mother-in-law as a very pleasant place. The villa is called Narnia.
Did C.S. Lewis ever say or write anything indicating that he got the name Narnia from Pliny's works? Because of his strong interest in the classics, this seems at least plausible.
Jim Goble

My wife Angelee was reading to our son Gawain (whom we homeschool) some classic texts and one of them was a letter to Gallus from Pliny the Younger. She hadn't read it before and when she did, she was so intrigued that she called me at work to read it to me over the phone. --Stanley

Dear Stanley and DrZeus friends
Pliny the Younger's letters are very interesting and I must said you thanks for this information . NARNIA are very close to Rome so Pliny have a villa in Narnia near Rome for go out to the troubles of is position like Roman VIP .
Also now many peoples from Rome for the week-end come to Narni
for have a rest in a quite place.

In this period an old bridge in Narnia are restored and are named
AUGUSTUS Bridge , you can see the immages

at the top of the home page http://www.narnia.it

[fgiusepp]

you write:

My wife Angelee was reading to our son Gawain (whom we homeschool) some classic texts and one of them was a letter to Gallus from Pliny the Younger.

May you tell me the reference of this letter ????
( exemple book and page: 8,20)

about the letter I see:

My wife's grandfather asked me to look around his estate near Ameria.

Narnia in Italy are very close to Ameria that are a town now named Amelia and are from Narni about 6 KM.

Very interesting
thanks Stanley may you tell me more ????????

[/quote]

[Stanley Anderson]

you write:

My wife Angelee was reading to our son Gawain (whom we homeschool) some classic texts and one of them was a letter to Gallus from Pliny the Younger.

May you tell me the reference of this letter ????
( exemple book and page: 8,20)

about the letter I see:

My wife's grandfather asked me to look around his estate near Ameria.

Narnia in Italy are very close to Ameria that are a town now named Amelia and are from Narni about 6 KM.

Very interesting
thanks Stanley may you tell me more ????????

The book is a Penguin Classic called "Latin Literature and Anthology" ("chosen by Michael Grant"). The page number in the book is 356 and 357. Unfortnuately it doesn't say anything about where in Pliny it is from except that it is a letter to Gallus.

--Stanley

[Sven]

In Harvard Classics it's in volume 9, letter number 93. There are only two letters to Gallus in Pliny's Letters, the one Stanley quotes is the second.

XCIII. To Gallus


THOSE works of art or nature which are usually the motives of our travels are often overlooked and neglected if they lie within our reach: whether it be that we are naturally less inquisitive concerning those things which are near us, while our curiosity is excited by remote objects; or because the easiness of gratifying a desire is always sure to damp it; or, perhaps, that we put off from time to time going and seeing what we know we have an opportunity of seeing when we please. Whatever the reason be, it is certain there are numberless curiosities in and near Rome which we have not only never seen, but even never so much as heard of: and yet had they been the produce of Greece, or Egypt, or Asia, or any other country which we admire as fertile and productive of belief in wonders, we should long since have heard of them, read of them, and enquired into them. For myself at least, I confess, I have lately been entertained with one of these curiosities, to which I was an entire stranger before. My wife’s grandfather desired I would look over his estate near Ameria. 1 As I was walking over his grounds, I was shewn a lake that lies below them, called Vadimon, 2 about which several very extraordinary things are told. I went up to this lake. It is perfectly circular in form, like a wheel lying on the ground; there is not the least curve or projection of the shore, but all is regular, even and just as if it had been hollowed and cut out by the hand of art. The water is of a clear sky-blue, though with somewhat of a greenish tinge; its smell is sulphurous, and its flavour has medicinal properties, and is deemed of great efficacy in all fractures of the limbs, which it is supposed to heal. Though of but moderate extent, yet the winds have a great effect upon it, throwing it into violent agitation. No vessels are suffered to sail here, as its waters are held sacred; but several floating islands swim about it, covered with reeds and rushes, and with whatever other plants the surrounding marshy ground and the edge itself of the lake produce in greater abundance. Each island has its peculiar shape and size, but the edges of all of them are worn away by their frequent collision with the shore and one another. They are all of the same height and motion; as their respective roots, which are formed like the keel of a boat, may be seen hanging not very far down in the water, and at an equal depth, on whichever side you stand. Sometimes they move in a cluster, and seem to form one entire little continent; sometimes they are dispersed into different quarters by the wind; at other times, when it is calm, they float up and down separately. You may frequently see one of the larger islands sailing along with a lesser joined to it, like a ship with its long boat; or, perhaps, seeming to strive which shall outswim the other: then again they are all driven to the same spot, and by joining themselves to the shore, sometimes on one side and sometimes on the other, lessen or restore the size of the lake in this part or that, accordingly, till at last, uniting in the centre, they restore it to its usual size. The sheep which graze upon the borders of this lake frequently go upon these islands to feed, without perceiving that they have left the shore, until they are alarmed by finding themselves surrounded with water; as though they had been forcibly conveyed and placed there. Afterwards, when the wind drives them back again, they as little perceive their return as their departure. This lake empties itself into a river, which, after running a little way, sinks underground, and, if anything is thrown in, it brings it up again where the stream emerges.—I have given you this account because I imagined it would not be less new, nor less agreeable, to you than it was to me; as I know you take the same pleasure as myself in contemplating the works of nature. Farewell

Note 1. Now called Amelia, a town in Ombria.
Note 2. Now Laghetto di Bassano.

[fgiusepp]

thanks to Sven for the information

I read that:
Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."

Do you know more about it?????????

[Sven]

I read that:
Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."

Do you know more about it?????????

Sorry, I think I understand your question, but I'm not sure. Please correct me if I'm answering something you didn't ask.

I take it you're quoting from http://www.narnia.it/narni_eu.htm.

I think whoever wrote the page misunderstood the letter to Gallus and thought it was written to Pliny's mother-in-law instead of being about the mother-in-law. I'm fairly sure that Pliny's mother-in-law wasn't named 'Rooster' :)

I took a look at the citation from the letter to Arthur Greeves. In They Stand Together there is no mention of Pliny the Younger that I can find. On page 171, a letter from Lewis to Greaves written 28 February 1917 there is quite a bit about Tacitus, but nothing about Pliny. This letter, by the way, is one of the notorious 'Philomastic' letters, and the reason Tactitus is mentioned is to address the Emperor Nero and his sadistic tendencies.

[fgiusepp]

about Narnia and Ameria you can find this Map



thanks for your information about :
I'm fairly sure that Pliny's mother-in-law wasn't named 'Rooster'

It is right Pliny's mother-in-law was named Pompea Celerina
about Tacitus many peoples said that born very close to Narnia in Terni
( named in latin INTERAMNA ) you can see this in the same immage in this page.

So Narnia are a very important latin town .
What you think about it ????