Should women be ordained

[rusmeister]

[Ana]

[rusmeister]

This takes us away from the OP into a related topic much posted on - Tradition and authority vs. Sola Scriptura, Jesus and me. I mentioned it because I believe it has an impact on the OP. Unfortunately, it does need to be examined separately. I'll just say that the last post assumes that authority is men commanding obedience to their own will, denigrating the use of authority in the above-mentioned churches. This understanding is quite far from the truth.

Obedience, the laying down of our own will and submitting, is a great virtue, not a vice as the above post seems to imply. In addition, it seems to suggest that submitting to authority must be contrary to conscience. That is a clear opposite of the truth - our conscience is opposed to our will. Commands to obedience will certainly align with our conscience against our will. We are to pray, "Thy will be done", not 'my will be done". Submitting to authority is a visible way of laying that will down and submitting to conscience. Far from defying our conscience or taking away freedom, submission to that authority is in complete accordance with our conscience and accords us the freedom of choice - to accept or reject any authority over us. The rejection of authority is in the same spirit as Lucifer's rejection - it is the sin of pride, however well concealed. This is the same root that rejects any roles assigned to us by our gender - both the burdens and the limitations.

I'll just repeat my comment - The part of ourselves that demands supremacy of self screams against such authority over us. The American illness - the cult of the individual and our individual 'rights' - doesn't help, either.

And that Sarah's post is the best on this thread.

[Ana]

[Sven]

[Ana]

[Kolbitar]

[Ana]

Well this is off topic but I will reply:

From Acts 1:1-

"...I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen..."Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." ...But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

The Apostles alone were given a special gift of the Holy Spirit to be THE avenue through which God would speak To the ends of the earth
That is how we got our Bible. And since the ends of the earth havn't yet recieved the message, they still alone do the speaking(NT)
The Bible claims that the Holy Spirit now works through the word. "the sword of the Spirit is the word of God" It does not say that the sword of the Spirit is the word of God and the Pope. The special annointing was just for the apostles.

The foundation being Jesus Christ, not the pope:

1 Corinthians 3:11 "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

As witnessed by and God inspired through THE apostles and prophets.
Ephesians 2:20 "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone"

If the pope is continuing on in a progression of infallability then the above verse should read: "Built of the foundation of apostles and prophets..." The "the" should be removed.

And proclaimed faithfully by the Church:

1 Timothy 3:15 "if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."

Note is says foundation of THE truth, it does not say: foundation of truth.


Foundations can only be laid once. They must be in place before it can by built upon. If the Pope or Church claim to be part of an ongoing project to build the foundation. Then the rest of the house doesn't get built.

How many buildings do you know of where the walls, windows, roof and everything gets put into place before the foundation and pillars are finished?

If you would like to continue the conversation, perhaps we should start a new thread.
.

[rusmeister]

[Ana]