This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Leslie » August 25th, 2005, 1:19 am

"What are you laughing at?"
"At myself. My little puny self," said Phillipa.
--Rumer Godden, In This House of Brede
User avatar
Leslie
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1814
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Adam » August 25th, 2005, 1:47 am

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Re: Scholarly translations

Postby Air of Winter » August 25th, 2005, 3:46 am

Air of Winter
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Jul 2005

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Adam Linton » August 25th, 2005, 3:47 am

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
User avatar
Adam Linton
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia Falls, MT

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby John Anthony » August 25th, 2005, 3:47 pm

John Anthony
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: California

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Adam » August 25th, 2005, 3:49 pm

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Adam » August 25th, 2005, 4:06 pm

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby Air of Winter » August 25th, 2005, 4:30 pm

Air of Winter
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Jul 2005

Re: Hebrew Cosmology and the OT accounts of Creation

Postby John Anthony » August 25th, 2005, 4:54 pm

John Anthony
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: California

In the beginning...

Postby Josh » September 23rd, 2005, 5:20 pm

"In the beginning, (when) God created the heavens and the earth..."

I think the "In the beginning" preface in the scripture is better evidence of Hebrew belief in ex nihilo creation than the presence or absence of the "when." The preface implies that there was a beginning, which requires a "time" when there was nothing (that's a tough concept, because if there is nothing--no energy, space or matter--then there is no time either). If the proverbial primordial soup pre-existed God or existed alongside God through eternity, and God merely provided order to the chaos like building a sandcastle on a beach, then the point at which order arose from disorder was no "beginning." The primordial soup would require an environment or a space, that space would require time, and pre-existing time forecloses any mention of a beginning. Whether it is "In the beginning, God" or "In the beginning, when God...", it is clear that the Hebrews believed that God pre-existed (or super-existed?--God, as Tillich would point out, doesn't exist like the universe exists) the beginning, and that the universe as we know it did not exist until after the beginning. Logic tells us that if the disordered components of the universe existed before the beginning, then the beginning wouldn't have been a beginning, at least in a temporal sense.

I lack the ability to debate which translation is more accurate, but I don't think either supports the notion that Hebrews believed in platonic creation. Even if we read pre-existing primordial components of the universe into Genesis 1:1, there's no evidence that the Hebrews believed that God was not also the ultimate creator of those components. The NT writers believed creation ex nihilo, and that with the influence of the Greek platonic beliefs on creation. If there were to be a trend, we'd expect it to be toward the Greek philosophers rather than away, particularly given that much of Christian doctrine isn't purely Hebrew but a combination of Greek and Hebrew (thanks to Paul). I don't see anything to warrant the jump from ex nihilo to platonic creation belief, even if the premise regarding the "when" is accepted and the "In the beginning" preface is ignored.

I also don't think the idea that evil is merely the byproduct of primordial disorder is biblical at all. Probably the earliest OT writing, Job, describes an active evil force confronting God. Jesus not only tells us that Satan exists, but he is tempted himself by Satan, not by some morally neutral remnant of primordial disorder. If the primordial disorder theory were to be accepted, we'd have to conclude that Adam, Eve, Jesus, and everyone before and since has not been tempted by a temptor, but by a mythical figment of our collective imaginations. The theory also borders on dualism, where God is a force opposing disorder, yet not a force with sovereinty over disorder. That's an unsettling proposition.

I think the better position is that taken by Paul--a man educated in Greek (platonic) philosophy in the Romans 11 doxology: "For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever."
User avatar
Josh
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: So long and thanks for all the fish.

Postby Kolbitar » September 25th, 2005, 11:15 am

User avatar
Kolbitar
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 667
Joined: Feb 2000
Location: Exile

Previous

Return to Religion, Science, and Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 19 guests