Is GOD involved in daily events?

[John Anthony]

Adam Linton wrote:

Why pray then? A good question, of course. From a Christian perpsective, a primary answer to it, even with all the un-resolvables, is that we are commanded to do so (as Lewis points out).

I guess that in Lewis's essay "prayer" means petitionary prayer. And it seems that in this thread, "prayer" has meant the same thing. There is another kind of prayer, call it contemplative prayer, which doesn't ask God for anything but only expresses a wish or intention to be open to God and to God's will. When Paul commanded us to "pray without ceasing", I rather doubt that he meant we should incessantly be asking God to do something for us or for someone else. I think he must have meant another kind of prayer.

[Adam Linton]

[John Anthony]

[hana]

[AllanS]

[AllanS]

[hana]

Hi Allan,
Goodness, I hope I didn't imply that I thought Job was persecuted by Satan because he deserved it! That would put me right in there with those friends of his.
I used the term ridiculous, although it may not have been the most appropriate, because of the feeling expressed by Job in Job 42:3-6. "Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask Thee, and do Thou instruct me.' I have heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees Thee; Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."
Also, Job 40:1-5
"Then the Lord said to Job, Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it." Then Job answered the Lord and said, "Behold, I am insignificant; what can I reply to Thee? I lay my hand on my mouth."

I think it's possible for a man to be both righteous and ridiculous at once. Job never sinned with his lips while under evil; he was righteous at beginning and end of story; however, the story is one of the most interesting in scripture because it shows progression in character from righteousness to righteousness. At the end of the story, Job has realized his smallness before God. He realizes that he is something like a bright oyster having an argument with Einstein.

I hope that clarifies my position. Not, of course, that my position of much importance:)
hana

[AllanS]

"Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."

If Job retracts, God is lost. If Job repents, he proves God wrong in his judgement, because righteous men don't repent.

The demonstration of God's power in the storm etc does not answer the moral question of why God lets bad things happen to good people. God knows this full well, and so does Job. For Job to be cowed by power would be mere cowardice. Job doesn't even bother to answer God's first speech.

“See, I am of small account; what shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth. I have spoken once, and I will not answer; twice, but will proceed no further."

Job says "Sure. You're big and you know a lot. I'm little and I'm ignorant. But I'm also innocent! I won't even dignify your argument from power with an answer! This whole thing is not about power but about justice!"

“Therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The word 'myself' is not found in the Hebrew. The word translated 'despise' or 'retract' can also mean 'to melt', as in worship. The word here for 'repent' can also mean 'to change course' or 'to be comforted'.

So, after Job hears God's second speech wherein He promises to one day tame the chaos monster, Job melts to his knees in worship, confident and comforted that, even tho he now sits in dust and ashes, God will one day make the reasons for his suffering clear.

[Karen]

[AllanS]

[Karen]

Thanks, Allan. As in many places in the OT, the Hebrew here is open to varying interpretations. Rather than seeing this as an either/or, the Jewish tradition embraces these tensions in scripture, and is much more at ease with ambiguity than we usually are. Along those lines, have you read The Bible as It Was, by James Kugel?

[AllanS]

[hana]

[Leslie]

[AllanS]