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Archbishop: gay relationships 'comparable to marriage'

Postby Mary » August 16th, 2008, 3:38 am

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Postby Mary » August 16th, 2008, 4:19 am

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Postby Adam » August 16th, 2008, 5:30 am

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
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Postby robsia » August 16th, 2008, 7:07 am

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Postby Karen » August 16th, 2008, 1:49 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Postby Adam Linton » August 16th, 2008, 5:00 pm

A few comments/reflections for the mix:

The institution of marriage in Western European and North American society has decisively, substantially, and irrevocably changed in the last fifty years--and well before the words "same sex marriage" were in anybody's imagination. Who did it? Heterosexuals. So--to me, at least--the "They are changing how it's always been!" bit is disingenuous. The arguments against same-sex marriage are largely predicated on appeals to marital patterns that heterosexuals themselves now (even religious conservatives) can't/won't live.

Take American conservative Protestant churches, for example. Take from them all congregational board members, Sunday School teachers, and other lay leaders who are divorced and re-married--those living in blended families--and we're probably talking major institutional shut-downs.

How many heterosexuals does anyone know who these days will stay in a personally unsatisfying marriage because of family or societal pressure? A few, to be sure--but a colossally lower percentage than, say, in 1958. What would a family member, these days, be more likely to hear in response to even gentle suggestions to a close relative (who wanted out of a marriage) to stay married? Probably something like, "That's none of your d**n business!"

So the issue now, for society and churches, in the midst of these already changed realities, how do we in best health, justice, and faith find our way forward? Admittedly, this will not be an easy, pain-free, or flawless process. Nor does it mean junking the classic values of chastity and fidelity.

But "how it used to be"*** has already been taken off the table--and not by same-sex couples.

Regards to all.

Adam Linton

*** And for the record, I think that there was a good deal more diversity and evolution in "how it used to be" than many care to admit.
we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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Postby Adam Linton » August 16th, 2008, 5:16 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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Postby alecto » August 19th, 2008, 1:02 pm

Sentio ergo est.
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Postby mitchellmckain » August 19th, 2008, 7:27 pm

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Postby robsia » August 19th, 2008, 7:38 pm

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Postby mitchellmckain » August 20th, 2008, 12:31 am

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Postby robsia » August 20th, 2008, 7:52 am

Well, the 'issue' behind my question above was specifically about what 'moderates likes you' are 'comfortable' with, as that was what you gave as a reason why civil partnerships should not be called marriages. Hence my question which was aimed at you specifically. I wanted to know what YOU thought - which you have answered - you don't care, which is great, but doesn't explain your antipathy. If you don't care why are you so vehement about it? I venture to suggest that you do in fact care a great deal.

So, to summarise, my thoughts notwithstanding, you claim to be personally OK about civil partners being called husbands and wives. But not OK about what they have being called a marriage.

The reason you gave being that - "[it] effectively rewrites everything that has ever been written. Is it right to rewrite everyone's books and stuff without their permission? I don't thnk so!"

1) It doesn't rewrite everything that has ever been written. Books written up to this point in history would reference marriage between a man and a woman and books written from this point that referenced this topic would simply reflect the sociological changes taking place within our society at the moment. Books, fiction and non, provide an invaluable resource for historians as they reflect society at such times at which the books were written. Times change, and our books reflect that. There is no need to rewrite books already written.

2) 'Right' is a relative issue. Is it 'right' to deny them a marriage?

I don't mean to offend but you seem incapable of discussing this without your strong emotions coming in to play - which makes it difficult. You declare that it's not 'right' and seem very passionate about it - but you don't seem to have given any thought as to WHY you think it's 'not right'.
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Postby alecto » August 20th, 2008, 11:52 am

Sentio ergo est.
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Postby rusmeister » August 20th, 2008, 5:41 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Postby mitchellmckain » August 20th, 2008, 9:45 pm

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