by friendofbill » June 10th, 2009, 8:27 pm
Indeed, if there was a "fall of creation," it must have happened at the very beginning. Paul speaks of creation having been "subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it in hope that the creation itself will be liberqted from its bondage..." What could "the will of the one who subjected it" mean other than (a) the will of God or (b) the will of Satan? It certaily could not mean the will of Adam. And I am one who rejects the idea that Satan, if he exists at all, could frustrate the will of God in any way.
Science tells us that at the immediate instant of the big bang (like, just befor it went "bang"), the four major physicak forces were one unified force, and that in the nanosecond after it went "bang" they separated into the four forces we know now. Was that a "fall?" Was that in fact the beginning of the "frustration" of the creation, the origin of entropy and its consequences, disaster and disease? That would make sense, IMO, of Paul's assertions in Romans 8. It would mean that in the instant that God said "shazam" and made the singularity that went "bang," it was foreordained that the consequences of "bang" would prevail -- so that, in a sense, He Himself subjeected the entire future of the univere to frustration. Perhaps so we'll appreciate it better when we see Him fix it at the other end of the timeline? Or perhaps because it was the game He wanted to play "for His pleasure."
I do not presume to be either an expert on quantum physics nor an expert on Pauline theology, though i had to study the one in college and the other in seminary. And I know that logic can carry one just so far, especially in the metaphysical realm., and then it drops one like a brick and says "go figure." So whatever I'm posting here is IMO; essentially, the conviction with which I am comfortable right now. I just don't want to come across as pontificating the "right answer" for anyone.